- 19 Ago 2010, 02:00
#87792
meus amigos o texto está em inglês, eu traduzi pelo google, e é por isto que não postei, aqui está para poderem me ajudar a traduzir melhor :
Matrix: I have found the Juggler method to be the essential foundation of a successful PU. Of
course, you need a full dose of ASF to be completely successful. I consider Juggler
method to be essential because it keeps the conversation flowing. A dead conversation is
a dead sarge. A natural conversation is best. For me the main thing about Juggler
method is to amplify her responses and dig into her world by making statements, and
NOT INTERROGATE her with questions.
Example:
YOU: (Instead of, "So where are you from?")
Go "You look like a country girl"
she'll tell you where she is from.
[Then expand on that]
YOU: "I hear all the chicks fromxxxx are really wild."
She'll tell some are...
YOU: You look like a nice-good chick, maybe too nice for me; I don't know
if we will get along.
She will tell she is wild too…
You expand and expand...get the picture
This gets the conversation started and rolling...Now you need to add the other ingredients
to build the attraction. Add C&F to her responses...add massive VALUE, Gimmicks
(cube, s.fields, ESP, etc.) KINO... Qualifiers...Go SS...Isolate and go Gunwitch...and
close.
As you rely on Juggler method as your foundation you will feel like a natural PUA cause you are running freestyle! Its really that simple
As an exercise, try going purely Juggler and see how well it works for you, if anything it will build your conversational skills. Juggler: I am a pretty good PUA and I care about each and every girl. I usually am seeing three or
four at a time but when I lose one I am sad. Lost one this week. A really sweet girl. She
had an innocent and affectionate personality I really enjoyed. It pains me she is out of my
life. However, the pain IS different from what you feel when you lose a girl you have
oneitis over. You will get to the point where you see this. You will care more for a girl's
soul then you care for her being in your life. Does that make sense? I am sad she will
miss the things I can bring to her. I am sad I will miss seeing the things I could bring out
of her.
It is like being a hunter. You study the prey. You learn how the prey thinks. You try to
anticipate the prey's moves. After awhile you can't help but somewhat admire, understand
and care for the prey. Of course, when you see the prey you are still going to kill it but
you have a kind of compasion in your heart.
Many people in this group will cop an antitude of not caring for girls. I think they are not
really being honest with themselves or they are not real artist or they are sloppy typers
and they mean they don't NEED any PARTICULAR girl.
If you come with the attitude that Neo-Rio suggests and remember you are the prize and you can do many good things for a girl you will always win. Juggler on “Always Be Expressing”: The purpose of any story or 'material' should NOT be to entertain. It should be to ATTRACT. You
attract by showing your humanity (your feelings and reactions to life). You had many
opportunities to do that with in this story but missed them:
How did you feel about the dog? You could have said, "my neighbor's dog was in front of his house. I love this dog. He is so affectionate and fun. I actually taught him a couple of tricks.." or however you felt. How did you feel about the dog hitting his head? Here, you did express some reaction - which is good. But think about what you are saying. I can
see that you are not focused on how you are feeling with the story but simply looking to be
entertaining. You are taking the dog's potential injuries very lightly and are more concerned about
having to tell the owners about the dog then anything else.
You should have hammed it up here: "I was like, oh my gosh, you poor thing. I rushed over there
thinking maybe I would have to give mouth to snout resuscitation, which I really didn't want to do
but I would have to save the little guy. So I got over there and leaned over and checked for
breathing." Then I would pause here and let her ask, "What? Was he okay?" Then tell her, "He
suddenly sprung to his feet, almost giving me a heart attack. So you see I am lucky to even be able
to make this phone call."
Also, over all slow down and try to shorten your stories. Cut out the facts and put in more of how you feel. When you can do that, you will be able to spin stories about the most simplest things into attraction.
SexPDX: As I mentioned in a thread of breakbeat's recently, I am now using a lot of what Juggler
has been recommending with regards to being genuinely expressive and keeping the
convo focused (as much as can be) on MYSELF and am relying on myself as basically
the sole source of ALL sarging material. I have noticed women being responsive to it.
Here is an example... ME: Yeah, I am a psych major now. I am just interested in this class because I come
from a family of lawyers and cops. I changed from Computer Science because the
company paying for my school laid me off and...
HB: Ooooh I am sorry.
ME: Oh, don't be, it's the BEST thing that ever happened to me.
HB: REALLY? ME: Oh yeah, I was in a deep state of denial about how much I was enjoying being a
software engineer. I was a different person when I first got the job at 20. I felt so proud
to have this great job and to be so well thought of and it was all so new. But as time went
on I started to enjoy it less and less but I felt trapped, it was....as if I had painted myself
into a corner. Now I am learning about the stuff I really like....
Notice particularly in the last quote I am targeting a wide range of expression. First I an
in a STATE OF DENIAL about my ENJOYMENT, then I was a DIFFERENT PERSON,
then I am PROUD, then I FEEL WELL THOUGHT OF, then it was NEW, then I
ENJOY IT LESS, then I FEEL TRAPPED, then I AM PAINTED INTO A
CORNER....and so on.
As long as you are focused on your reactions to the world as a human being you have an unlimited source of material to work with. If you are sufficiently expressive in this way she will both EV you and open up herself. If you get used to doing this normally and naturally even when you are not actively sarging you will also experience deeper rapport with people in general and have a more enriching experience as a human being. Kinda cool how that works
The way you know you are really having an incredible connection is that you don't have
to talk about what an INCREDIBLE CONNECTION there is or remind her of some
incredible connection that went on in her life at some point in the past. All that does is
communicate your lack of confidence in your ability to represent the ORIGINAL source
of those feelings you are trying to remind her of. Instead, you are focused on
communicating about the stuff that such a connection would actually be BASED ON.
Canned material should focus on something to do with YOU. The blond hair opener is good for example. So is asking her opinion of some article of clothing you are wearing. In transitioning, keep the focus still on you and move progressively towards a feeling of free-flow expression between you and her.
To acknowledge the concerns of people who have stated that they feel a need to develop
their confidence with canned routines before trying something like this I will point out
that the confidence you develop doing that is illusory. The confidence is in the material,
not in you. When you are genuinely expressing your core self and are able to see women
responding well to that and not something you have read in a newsgroup your self-esteem
goes through the roof
Hedge Killa: Guys this shit is easy! Just talk about whats on your mind. Tell a story like
PDX does and reveal your emotions, your thoughts, your feelings. CHICKS EAT
THIS UP. It will seriously blow your mind. You don't have to try and be funny
or anything else. Just relate your humanity to her. It is very interesting and
she will most likely have NOT met a man who has done that before with her.
Humor is a good thing, but unless you are using a GM style approach, joke
around about everything else with girlsbut sex. People joke about sex because
they are not comfortable discussing it seriously. Speak of it candidly and you
will make many women crazy with lust and you will impart them with the
knowledge that you WILL seriously lead them to sex if they wish.
Juggler on Stories: In general try to avoid searching for good material.
Some of the other posters are on target here when they say anything can be a story.
You need to develop your ability to relate and express a story. Once you get good at this,
you can create interest out of thin air. Anybody can get attention by telling a story which is in it's own nature entertaining. That
type of 'good' material WILL keep attention, but in the end it is the story that is
interesting and not you. That is bad.
I cannot express this strongly enough. AVOID INTERESTING STORIES. They can be a mirage, which will lead you away from seduction. Also keep in mind that 'interesting' material can be hijacked. You will be the center of
attention, talking about some great topic and then some other guy or CB just has to get in
their story or views on the same subject and then boom, you are no longer the center of
attention.
Instead develop your ability to make the mundane fascinating. Once you can do this, then your listener will associate good feelings with you and not your material. For example, I sometimes challenge guys to use their most fascinating material, whether it be palm reading, NLP, a story about seeing two girls fight or whatever and I will just recite my grocery shopping list. Then we will see who does better. That is what you need to do. Get really freaking good at making your groceries interesting. Do that and you will realize that it is not what you talk about, but how you talk about it.
Use dramatic pauses, hooks and expressions. Really get into your story. Also never just
spill your story out. Instead make your listeners want to hear more. Pause and look at
them. Wait for their interest to show. Play on their curiosity and refuse to 'entertain' them.
They must show interest on their faces and in their questions or else do not continue -
your story and performance is valuable. Try not to just give it away.
As far as sexual stories go, personally I talk about some of the things that have happened to me with other women. This is typically a money subject. The stories subtly relate ideas I want to get across (You may want to relate different ideas) Like I am good in bed, I am
a player who is up for a purely sexual relationship, women seek me out, I am high
maintenance (If I am considering this girl for mltr) etc... Of course these all appear to be
just things that are in the story and not the point of the story so it doesn't look like I'm
bragging or something.
Okay, so here is my recommendation to you:
Everyday in the evening, think of what you did that day and package it into a story.
Practice it a few times and then go out and use the "How are you opener." That goes like
this:
You: "How are you?"
Her: "I'm fine..." or whatever.
Her: "How are you?"
Or if she doesn't reciprocate you say playfully, "Don't you think it's rude to not ask how I am after I asked how you are?" Her: "Okay, how are you?" (Note: In general asking a question like this at the beginning of an interaction is
dangerous. You leave yourself open for her to say flatly, "No, I don't." The key is to
perform it very playfully. But there is still a chance of being burned here - just figure it
into your calculations.)
You: "I'm great. Today I went shopping...." or "I laid on the couch..." or whatever you did that day. Then the next night, re-write your stories based on what you did that day and so on. You never use the same story twice and you get real good at telling stories. Remember it's all on the delivery. Practice saying the most mundane, regular things in an interesting manner. Practice in front of a mirror and consider video recording yourself. Also, once you get good at 'performing' stories you will get good at coming up with
material spontaneously. This is because you will know what type of things to look for and
where to go. Many guys think that they cannot come up with something to talk about. But
the real problem that they don't realize is that they have too many things to talk about.
Getting good at performing will give you the ability to narrow these choices down and
make you 'quicker thinking'.
>How do you let on that you're high >maintenance and that they'd better >treat you like a king?
I'm pretty direct about this. Most of the time I'll just say, "Something I've discovered about myself is that, (pause for effect) I'm high maintenance. I like back rubs, receiving love notes, breakfast in bed, that sort of stuff. I like it when girls take care of me." Funny that this should come up. Just last night my teenage girlfriend showed up at my
door with a red rose in a vase and a love note. Awww, she is so thoughtful. (By the way,
those taking my Denver workshop may get a chance to meet her cause she's coming out
with me since we might go white water rafting later that week.)
Anyway, of course, I remember telling her early on all about me being high
maintenance. At the time she just shook her head, but now, during our
'relationship', she is providing the maintenance she knows I need.
Keep in mind, telling her I'm high maintenance is in no way a tactic to get her in bed. It
comes from the heart. It is a way of letting her know what I want. She probably won't
begin giving me a back rub right there during the sarge (although this does happen much
more than it has a right to) but it is a thought that I am planting, to guide the rest of
the interaction/relationship.You may want different types of behaviors from a girl. Some guys only want a girl to come over have sex and then leave. Some guys want a girl who is up for going out and picking up other girls for threesomes. The point is, whatever YOU want is what you should relate here.
See girls, like all people, need something to work towards. But at the same time, they
need a path to that goal. If you don't give them both then they are lost and will do
random and counter productive stuff. Almost from the moment I meet a girl, I am
telling her things that she can do to win my heart.
One more note. One of the reasons the "I'm high maintenance" thing works is because it is funny. And it is funny because it is startling. Guys just usually don't say that kind of thing - perform accordingly.
From: <juggler>
Subject: Juggler's Girlfriend Test
Date: Tuesday, 18 December 2001 8:05 AM
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast.tactics-techniques
Here is the girlfriend test per request. It is really very simple. When a girl checks your status. "Do you have a girlfriend?"
Say, "To be my girlfriend (or lover) is a prestigious and exclusive thing.
There's a test."
Curiosity being what it is, she will want to take the test. There are three
multiple-choice questions. Take out a pen and write the correct answers on her
palm but forbid her to look. Then ask her the questions while you hold her hand
closed. You should make up your own, but here are some example questions.
1. Which do you enjoy more? A shower or a warm bath?
2. What is the sexiest food? Whipped crème, chocolate syrup or strawberries?
3. What feels better? Kisses on your neck or nibbling on your ear?
The correct answers are bath, strawberries and kisses on the neck. Most times she will
answer the first two correctly. The last question is up for grabs. The crucial thing is that
the last question is some sort of intense kino or kissing that you can do right then.
If she gets it wrong: Whisper in her ear "I can't be with you if you really believe this
(nibble ear) feels better than this (kiss neck)."
If she gets it right: "I'm glad you like this (nibble or kiss). It is so much better than this
(kiss or nibble)."
Make sure you kiss and nibble before you let go of her hand. If she gets all the questions
wrong give her a playfully hard time about it. This test is used mostly after you have
some connection. If a girl checks your status it usually means she is interested. But you
may want to try it as an opening - who knows.
There are many variations including writing something clever on her hand instead of the
answers, etc. Someday I may post my SuperTest. But I'm sure posters to this group can
come up with some creative ones.
BLscorpZ: Ahh, where to start. After the whole get to know each other lunch time,
Juggler talked about the structure of his method, which I'll outline soon.
Then we went out in the field and we all made approaches here and there all
day. By saturday night, we were all totally ON and having a great time.
Sunday, there were fewer HBs and each of us made only a couple approaches
because the group may have been too large (there were 7 or 8 of us,
including Juggler himself). In total, I think I've interacted with about
20-30 women this weekend, most of them on saturday and saturday night. I
want to interact with about 200 more women in the next few weeks so I can
get the Juggler Method right. And take many things from it and integrate it
into my personal style. There are a couple things I disagree with in JM,
and I'll get to that later.
And now the meat. The things I want to say about JM and a few other things.
Bear with me, I'll try to make it as organized as possible, however this
could be a little messy, but not as messy as TD's posts...
*** CONVERSATION: HIGH & LOW POINTS According to Juggler, a conversation has high and low points. A low point
is like a pause or a lull in the conversation. A high point is where you
are talking freely and natural, as in a dialogue, and you two are in rapport
1. Which do you enjoy more? A shower or a warm bath?
2. What is the sexiest food? Whipped crème, chocolate syrup or strawberries?
3. What feels better? Kisses on your neck or nibbling on your ear?
The correct answers are bath, strawberries and kisses on the neck. Most times she will
answer the first two correctly. The last question is up for grabs. The crucial thing is that
the last question is some sort of intense kino or kissing that you can do right then.
If she gets it wrong: Whisper in her ear "I can't be with you if you really believe this
(nibble ear) feels better than this (kiss neck)."
If she gets it right: "I'm glad you like this (nibble or kiss). It is so much better than this
(kiss or nibble)."
Make sure you kiss and nibble before you let go of her hand. If she gets all the questions
wrong give her a playfully hard time about it. This test is used mostly after you have
some connection. If a girl checks your status it usually means she is interested. But you
may want to try it as an opening - who knows.
There are many variations including writing something clever on her hand instead of the
answers, etc. Someday I may post my SuperTest. But I'm sure posters to this group can
come up with some creative ones.
BLscorpZ: Ahh, where to start. After the whole get to know each other lunch time,
Juggler talked about the structure of his method, which I'll outline soon.
Then we went out in the field and we all made approaches here and there all
day. By saturday night, we were all totally ON and having a great time.
Sunday, there were fewer HBs and each of us made only a couple approaches
because the group may have been too large (there were 7 or 8 of us,
including Juggler himself). In total, I think I've interacted with about
20-30 women this weekend, most of them on saturday and saturday night. I
want to interact with about 200 more women in the next few weeks so I can
get the Juggler Method right. And take many things from it and integrate it
into my personal style. There are a couple things I disagree with in JM,
and I'll get to that later.
And now the meat. The things I want to say about JM and a few other things.
Bear with me, I'll try to make it as organized as possible, however this
could be a little messy, but not as messy as TD's posts...
*** CONVERSATION: HIGH & LOW POINTS According to Juggler, a conversation has high and low points. A low point
is like a pause or a lull in the conversation. A high point is where you
are talking freely and natural, as in a dialogue, and you two are in rapport
1. Which do you enjoy more? A shower or a warm bath?
2. What is the sexiest food? Whipped crème, chocolate syrup or strawberries?
3. What feels better? Kisses on your neck or nibbling on your ear?
The correct answers are bath, strawberries and kisses on the neck. Most times she will
answer the first two correctly. The last question is up for grabs. The crucial thing is that
the last question is some sort of intense kino or kissing that you can do right then.
If she gets it wrong: Whisper in her ear "I can't be with you if you really believe this
(nibble ear) feels better than this (kiss neck)."
If she gets it right: "I'm glad you like this (nibble or kiss). It is so much better than this
(kiss or nibble)."
Make sure you kiss and nibble before you let go of her hand. If she gets all the questions
wrong give her a playfully hard time about it. This test is used mostly after you have
some connection. If a girl checks your status it usually means she is interested. But you
may want to try it as an opening - who knows.
There are many variations including writing something clever on her hand instead of the
answers, etc. Someday I may post my SuperTest. But I'm sure posters to this group can
come up with some creative ones.
BLscorpZ: Ahh, where to start. After the whole get to know each other lunch time,
Juggler talked about the structure of his method, which I'll outline soon.
Then we went out in the field and we all made approaches here and there all
day. By saturday night, we were all totally ON and having a great time.
Sunday, there were fewer HBs and each of us made only a couple approaches
because the group may have been too large (there were 7 or 8 of us,
including Juggler himself). In total, I think I've interacted with about
20-30 women this weekend, most of them on saturday and saturday night. I
want to interact with about 200 more women in the next few weeks so I can
get the Juggler Method right. And take many things from it and integrate it
into my personal style. There are a couple things I disagree with in JM,
and I'll get to that later.
And now the meat. The things I want to say about JM and a few other things.
Bear with me, I'll try to make it as organized as possible, however this
could be a little messy, but not as messy as TD's posts...
*** CONVERSATION: HIGH & LOW POINTS According to Juggler, a conversation has high and low points. A low point
is like a pause or a lull in the conversation. A high point is where you
are talking freely and natural, as in a dialogue, and you two are in rapport
with each other. Get the picture? Now, I used to feel awkward or in a rush
to say something during a low point. But, having low points is normal in a
conversation, so no need to feel awkward or "force" the conversation.
Simply make more statements to see how the girl reacts to your statements,
and this should get the conversation going again. Which brings me to my
next point...
*** QUESTIONS VS. STATEMENTS Juggler has emphasized using statements rather questions throughout the
entire workshop. According to Juggler, if a girl is not responding to your
talking, don't force it with a question. It will not open her up. Stay
cool and comfortable, and find common ground using statements. This would
be at a low point, where you should not struggle to get the conversation
going by asking questions. Statements could be antecedotes, little snippets
from long stories, etc etc. It is always better to make statements of
value, something that they can RELATE to, preferrably NEW ideas. Questions
don't relay any value, statements do. Here's an example: it has been a
tough winter in DC this year. I'm in a mall, and see a girl browsing for
sandals. In this case, a good statement that she can relate to is, "hey,
those shoes are good summerwear, can't wait till summer because its been a
rough winter this year." And you can lead the conversation from there, you
get the idea. Which brings me to the next point...
*** OPENERS Anything is OK as an opener, so don't try and perfect the art of opening.
Rather, work on your body language when you open. I demonstrated for
Juggler by opening a girl that was walking by, and he said I have to work on
my body language. I tend to tilt my body to one side, putting more weight
on one foot than the other. He said to stand up straight and don't lean.
Also if you're in a bar and you can't hear her, don't lean your head in,
instead shift your entire body closer to her... its less threatening that
way. I can correct this in a matter of minutes. And also to SMILE more.
We also talked about physical breaks, which is hard to explain in text.
Read SexPDX's Review for more on that, since I won't even bother trying to
explain this. Anyway... Juggler also said that when you are making a statement as an opener, you
must make sure that the girl KNOWS you are talking to HER, not just to
yourself. That will get her to respond to you, rather than nodding and then
walking away thinking that you're just talking to yourself. Now, I don't
think it is necessary to make statements ALL the time, that is hard to do.
I think Juggler got confronted about that, and he says it is fine to ask
questions AS LONG as you can back it up with a statement or a short story.
I agree with this, and opinion openers are a good example. With opinion
openers, you open with a question... then you back it up with a
statement/story behind it. If you're not sure what opinion openers are,
just ask TD and Papa. I'm sure they'll give you GREAT examples, these two
guys are walking PU encyclopedias full of TFM I can't think of any more
examples of statement openers because they are more situational than canned.
Situational openers... well, look around and use your imagination. Juggler
also said that the opener and its follow-up don't have to be related.
Again, it can be an open-ended and genuine question backed up with a
statement. Then follow-up by opening a new conversation thread. Again,
don't struggle to keep the conversation going by asking questions. Asking
questions will only get her to feel a bit uncomfortable... in that
why-is-he-getting-to-know-me-and-I-don't-have-a-clue-who-he-is? kind of
thinking. Another thing about openers, don't wait for her response if there
is a pause. That will make her feel uncomfortable. Just continue with the
follow-up. Oh, and Juggler does restaurant sarging on waitresses and other
tables. On waitresses, he opens with "We're not big drinkers, but we'll
have this and that..." and on other tables, he asks them about what they're
eating and says "I don't think we have that where I'm from" and this gets
them to ask where he is from. I suppose he takes it from there. He has
demonstrated this for us a couple times.
Oh, before I move on to the next topic, here's an aside here - I asked him
about table approaches, and one thing I learned about opening tables is that
when someone on the table asks you a question, that is your CUE to sit down
and join them.
*** GENERATING INTEREST Juggler says to stop thinking in terms of IOIs, but in openness, rapport,
and genuine. I agree because when I sarge, I don't even count how many IOIs
women give me. I just feel the whole VIBE between us, and when I think it
is right, I go for the close. I think newbies, especially if they have
male-pattern-blindness, can practice by thinking in terms of IOIs, and when
they get GOOD at picking them up, they can stop counting the IOIs and just
go for it when they think they generated enough interest. Personally, I
never had a problem telling when a girl was interested in me, even in my AFC
days... I was perceptive enough. I just had a problem of doing *something*
about it.
*** TAKEAWAYS He doesn't believe in takeaways. According to him, they damage rapport. In your PUs, you should AIM for rapport rather than doing takeaways just
because you think it will get her to chase you. The only time they are fine
is when takeaways are natural and genuine. For example, if you need to go
to the bathroom. IME, I find that intentionally doing takeaways literally
KILLS any chance of me hooking up with a particular chick, espeically in the
bar scene where she can EASILY disappear into the crowd. So I would not
lean on takeaways to do the work in attracting her to me, UNLESS I am doing
the short-set method, in that case it is perfectly fine. More on that
later.
*** RAPPORT This is huge in JM, it is the most important thing. This is what JM aims
for. For instance, if a HB comes on to you, you MAY think that you are
moving forward. But this actually isn't so. You STILL need to get rapport
in order to seduce and close. You can get rapport by making statements and
bringing the conversation to a high point. Juggler advises against using
sarcasm, because it is negative and pessimistic, which I agree with.
Frankly, constant sarcasm turns me off. I can understand that in JM, you
rely on YOURSELF to be a natural, rather than using routines you memorized
off this seduction community. I used to use routines all the time, and yes
it got me results, but I still felt that the girl doesn't really like me for
who I AM. It was the routines doing the work for me. BUT... if you can use
your OWN routines and stories that are actually TRUE of you, then by all
means use them! Using your own material is EXPRESSING yourself to your
women... and this is what JM is all about. Self-expression. If you express
yourself to girls, they will want to express THEIRSELVES to YOU. This is
building intimacy between you and the girls. Now, THAT's rapport! In fact,
you should ALWAYS be expressing yourself, while you are talking AND
listening. Put a positive spin on everything, even if she only partially
agrees. I talked to Juggler about the levels of intimacy, and where does
each topic of conversation lie. It goes something like this (this is
extremely rough, and may not be the most accurrate, just to give you an
idea):
Level 1 (Superficial) -- pets, shoes, flowers, etc
Level 2 (Semi-Rapport) -- family, job, etc
Level 3 (Rapport) -- bf, relationships, sex
Level 4 (Deep-Rapport) -- SOI, close
I suppose this ties in very well with GWM because there is an assumption of
rapport (VRA) when you are at a high point in a conversation like this. In
Gunwitch's recent post about rapport he talks about talking to people as if
they are long-time friends, and not strangers. This ties in pretty well
with JM when it comes to making statements rather than bombarding her with
the typical get-to-know-you questions. *** SOI What do you do when you are at a high point in a conversation, when you have
rapport? Its time to SOI, and go for the close. If there is a high point
immediately after the opener, introduce yourself and tell her your name.
She will tell you hers. After that, on the high points, you may SOI.
Examples of SOIs:
"I like you."
"Hey, we should get together sometime."
"I want to see you again."
I know some guys here will knock these off as lame or something, but don't.
IME, they do work. There are a lot of girls who won't make a move on you
until you tell them this. Last time I used an SOI like this, it recently
was at school and I was in semi-rapport with a girl, and then I said "I like
you." Her face lit up and blushed a little, and she said "good, I like you
too." Then I immediately pulled her into my room and got the lay. Call it
fool's mate if ya want, but if it works, it works. No complaints. In JM,
you dont SOI until you are at a high point. Do not SOI during a low point,
it will come off as awkward and lame, and you set yourself up for a higher
chance of rejection. And he advises against using modifiers, such as "I
think..", "so, you know..", etc. Just go for it. Spit it out. Get it out.
And when you get a good reaction, proceed to close however you want to.
*** COCKY & FUNNY (or PLAYFUL, whatever ya wanna call it, I don't care) There's no C&F in JM. Because Juggler seems to think that rapport is
fragile and being cocky/funny will kill whatever rapport you have already
with the girl. I UNDERSTAND where he is coming from, although I won't do
away with C&F entirely. There are times where C&F has worked beautifully
and got me the girl, and there are other times where it BLEW my sarges to
bits and pieces. There also have been times where I got GREAT responses
from girls when I used C&F, but they end up going home with another guy who
was all rapport rapport with her. It is indeed tricky WHEN to use C&F. If
you and a girl ALREADY is in rapport, do NOT use C&F at that point. It will
only set you back, or even bomb the sarge so bad it won't be any prettier
than Baghdad at this moment. HOWEVER... I believe that C&F works best in
groupsets. Especially in the bar scene. It sets you apart. Plus, it gets
girls competing for you, and thats good social proof. Oh, and I just
realized... C&F liners ARE indeed STATEMENTS. A lot of TD's stuff are
statements, and TD himself says do not ask the girl any questions unless SHE
asks you first. In daytime sarges though, where you look for AIs and open
via physical breaks, C&F is often not necessary at all because it is easier
to get rapport in these cases. Well, maybe just a little bit, in terms of
ROLE PLAYING. The nighttime PU game is quite different though... which
leads me to the next topic.
*** JM IN BARS / CLUBS -- SUB-TOPIC: GROUPSETS Keep conversation simple, and emphasize body language movements because it
is hard to hear in these places since its loud and the girls have shorter
attention spans.
When sarging groupsets, Juggler advises going for the one who is LEAST
involved in her group. Get rapport with her, and get her to introduce you
to the others in her group. From there you can choose your target. It is
also better to engage one person STRONGLY than just MILDLY engaging an
entire group. You can even build your own group (which I have done before
myself). When Juggler talks to groups of 3 or more, most of his attention
is on one girl (his target), and optionally talks to the others before
isolating and closing his target. This, IMHO, is more flexible and
straightforward than how the traditional MM goes. When you are in rapport
with your target, don't forget to ask about her logistics. Who is she with?
How is she getting home? Where she is staying? That kind of thing. Also,
Juggler said that isolation is not necessarily in a private room. It can be
a short distance from her friends. I agree with that because her friends
probably can't hear your conversation anyway.
In bars, his mindset goes like this: "You don't need anything. Give what
you give, and put that in pauses" and says that gets him good reactions. If
the girls do not respond to you much at first, you can leave and come back
later. Rather than waiting for a pause or a lull in a conversation, you can
just pause the entire interaction when YOU want to, and return to them later
whenever you feel like it. This is similar to the short-set method that TD
recently posted about. Juggler also said that if you say something stupid
or make a mistake and they close up, you shouldn't view it as a bad thing
because her reaction does not measure your progress with her.
What about negs? I don't think Juggler believes in those. I find them to
rarely be necessary. Contrary to popular belief of MM, the 9s and 10s don't
get approached as much as the 8s do. So I find that when I approach a 9 or
10, they are actually welcoming and open. But maybe thats just to me, I
don't know and I'm not complaining
*** TALKING ABOUT RELATIONSHIP SITUATIONS (this topic should be between Rapport and SOI) Juggler and I discussed a lot about this as this is relatively new to me. I
did not do much of this before, except when getting a chick to be my MLTR
(read the MLTR theory post by Svengali, I HIGHLY recommend it if you're
looking for more than a ONS). I asked him how he goes about bringing up the
relationship topic of conversation. He said to tell about yours first. One
way to do this is, after you ask about her relationship situation (e.g. "so,
is there a bf/lover in your life now?") she'll be a bit shocked, and then
take over and tell her your relationship situation FIRST. And then ask her
"what about you?" Juggler advises on being honest, and show cracks in your
relationship situation, and she will show cracks in hers. Then you can work
from there. You don't really have to talk about relationships, but this is
a good lead-in to your SOI.
*** SUMMARY OF JUGGLER METHOD - Opening
- Wait for her to express herself (via making statements, getting rapport,
high point of convo)
- Introduce yourself (at the high point)
- What is she doing today? (if you are walking, she is going somewhere, say
"im going that way too")
- Show interest with statement (via talking about relationship situations
followed by an SOI)
- Make appropriate close (contact, instant date, kiss, or fuck)
JUGGLER METHOD, BY JUGGLER: (This seems analogous to Cat Theory from Mystery)
This may be counter-intuitive to you, but you want the conversation about YOU.
What interesting things you have to say, what stories you have to tell, what
you think about her, your method of revealing dark secrets from a girl's
subconscious, etc. Not about her. It's about you.
Talking about clothes, negging her, asking about her life etc. will work for a
short time. But then she will see the pattern of what you are doing, she will
see you working and she will shut you down. That way only works for chicks with
a low self-esteem.
The fuel that drives a conversation is curiosity. You must always prepare for
that to be present. Yes you can keep a conversation on life support by being
curious about her. And if done well, it can work. But really, hot girls get
talked up about themselves all the time. Many guys try the busting on her
approach. Really beautiful women have been hit on by guys since they were
thirteen. She can see you coming a mile away. You must turn the tables and get
her curious about YOU, get her coming on to YOU. Your instinct when you meet a girl should always be to hook her curiosity and have her asking you a question. That is the beginning of her chasing you. That is Juggler method.
That is actually not bad stuff. But you need to hook after her laugh. You did get a laugh here right? You: "a small African country. I going to have to fill many positions in my new
government. Let's see... (look at her appraisingly) What job would you be good
for... (she is curious as to what you think she should do in your
'administration'. Stretch it out.) I think you would be my... minister of
education."
Her: "Why education?" You: "Just look at your fingers (take her hand). Go into palm reading or jewelry powers routine. Story telling works just the same way - you want her to ask to hear them.
Figure out all your good material and find a way for her to work to discover
it.
You do not want to EV her. You want HER EVing YOU. The purpose of EV is to find
out a person's values and then appeal to those things. Let her be the one
trying to align herself with YOUR values. You are the fucking prize. Then she
will chase you, then she will close you.
Matrix: I have found the Juggler method to be the essential foundation of a successful PU. Of
course, you need a full dose of ASF to be completely successful. I consider Juggler
method to be essential because it keeps the conversation flowing. A dead conversation is
a dead sarge. A natural conversation is best. For me the main thing about Juggler
method is to amplify her responses and dig into her world by making statements, and
NOT INTERROGATE her with questions.
Example:
YOU: (Instead of, "So where are you from?")
Go "You look like a country girl"
she'll tell you where she is from.
[Then expand on that]
YOU: "I hear all the chicks fromxxxx are really wild."
She'll tell some are...
YOU: You look like a nice-good chick, maybe too nice for me; I don't know
if we will get along.
She will tell she is wild too…
You expand and expand...get the picture
This gets the conversation started and rolling...Now you need to add the other ingredients
to build the attraction. Add C&F to her responses...add massive VALUE, Gimmicks
(cube, s.fields, ESP, etc.) KINO... Qualifiers...Go SS...Isolate and go Gunwitch...and
close.
As you rely on Juggler method as your foundation you will feel like a natural PUA cause you are running freestyle! Its really that simple
As an exercise, try going purely Juggler and see how well it works for you, if anything it will build your conversational skills. Juggler: I am a pretty good PUA and I care about each and every girl. I usually am seeing three orfour at a time but when I lose one I am sad. Lost one this week. A really sweet girl. She
had an innocent and affectionate personality I really enjoyed. It pains me she is out of my
life. However, the pain IS different from what you feel when you lose a girl you have
oneitis over. You will get to the point where you see this. You will care more for a girl's
soul then you care for her being in your life. Does that make sense? I am sad she will
miss the things I can bring to her. I am sad I will miss seeing the things I could bring out
of her.
It is like being a hunter. You study the prey. You learn how the prey thinks. You try to
anticipate the prey's moves. After awhile you can't help but somewhat admire, understand
and care for the prey. Of course, when you see the prey you are still going to kill it but
you have a kind of compasion in your heart.
Many people in this group will cop an antitude of not caring for girls. I think they are not
really being honest with themselves or they are not real artist or they are sloppy typers
and they mean they don't NEED any PARTICULAR girl.
If you come with the attitude that Neo-Rio suggests and remember you are the prize and you can do many good things for a girl you will always win. Juggler on “Always Be Expressing”: The purpose of any story or 'material' should NOT be to entertain. It should be to ATTRACT. You
attract by showing your humanity (your feelings and reactions to life). You had many
opportunities to do that with in this story but missed them:
How did you feel about the dog? You could have said, "my neighbor's dog was in front of his house. I love this dog. He is so affectionate and fun. I actually taught him a couple of tricks.." or however you felt. How did you feel about the dog hitting his head? Here, you did express some reaction - which is good. But think about what you are saying. I can
see that you are not focused on how you are feeling with the story but simply looking to be
entertaining. You are taking the dog's potential injuries very lightly and are more concerned about
having to tell the owners about the dog then anything else.
You should have hammed it up here: "I was like, oh my gosh, you poor thing. I rushed over there
thinking maybe I would have to give mouth to snout resuscitation, which I really didn't want to do
but I would have to save the little guy. So I got over there and leaned over and checked for
breathing." Then I would pause here and let her ask, "What? Was he okay?" Then tell her, "He
suddenly sprung to his feet, almost giving me a heart attack. So you see I am lucky to even be able
to make this phone call."
Also, over all slow down and try to shorten your stories. Cut out the facts and put in more of how you feel. When you can do that, you will be able to spin stories about the most simplest things into attraction.
SexPDX: As I mentioned in a thread of breakbeat's recently, I am now using a lot of what Juggler
has been recommending with regards to being genuinely expressive and keeping the
convo focused (as much as can be) on MYSELF and am relying on myself as basically
the sole source of ALL sarging material. I have noticed women being responsive to it.
Here is an example... ME: Yeah, I am a psych major now. I am just interested in this class because I come
from a family of lawyers and cops. I changed from Computer Science because the
company paying for my school laid me off and...
HB: Ooooh I am sorry.
ME: Oh, don't be, it's the BEST thing that ever happened to me.
HB: REALLY? ME: Oh yeah, I was in a deep state of denial about how much I was enjoying being a
software engineer. I was a different person when I first got the job at 20. I felt so proud
to have this great job and to be so well thought of and it was all so new. But as time went
on I started to enjoy it less and less but I felt trapped, it was....as if I had painted myself
into a corner. Now I am learning about the stuff I really like....
Notice particularly in the last quote I am targeting a wide range of expression. First I an
in a STATE OF DENIAL about my ENJOYMENT, then I was a DIFFERENT PERSON,
then I am PROUD, then I FEEL WELL THOUGHT OF, then it was NEW, then I
ENJOY IT LESS, then I FEEL TRAPPED, then I AM PAINTED INTO A
CORNER....and so on.
As long as you are focused on your reactions to the world as a human being you have an unlimited source of material to work with. If you are sufficiently expressive in this way she will both EV you and open up herself. If you get used to doing this normally and naturally even when you are not actively sarging you will also experience deeper rapport with people in general and have a more enriching experience as a human being. Kinda cool how that works
The way you know you are really having an incredible connection is that you don't have
to talk about what an INCREDIBLE CONNECTION there is or remind her of some
incredible connection that went on in her life at some point in the past. All that does is
communicate your lack of confidence in your ability to represent the ORIGINAL source
of those feelings you are trying to remind her of. Instead, you are focused on
communicating about the stuff that such a connection would actually be BASED ON.
Canned material should focus on something to do with YOU. The blond hair opener is good for example. So is asking her opinion of some article of clothing you are wearing. In transitioning, keep the focus still on you and move progressively towards a feeling of free-flow expression between you and her.
To acknowledge the concerns of people who have stated that they feel a need to develop
their confidence with canned routines before trying something like this I will point out
that the confidence you develop doing that is illusory. The confidence is in the material,
not in you. When you are genuinely expressing your core self and are able to see women
responding well to that and not something you have read in a newsgroup your self-esteem
goes through the roof
Hedge Killa: Guys this shit is easy! Just talk about whats on your mind. Tell a story like
PDX does and reveal your emotions, your thoughts, your feelings. CHICKS EAT
THIS UP. It will seriously blow your mind. You don't have to try and be funny
or anything else. Just relate your humanity to her. It is very interesting and
she will most likely have NOT met a man who has done that before with her.
Humor is a good thing, but unless you are using a GM style approach, joke
around about everything else with girlsbut sex. People joke about sex because
they are not comfortable discussing it seriously. Speak of it candidly and you
will make many women crazy with lust and you will impart them with the
knowledge that you WILL seriously lead them to sex if they wish.
Juggler on Stories: In general try to avoid searching for good material.
Some of the other posters are on target here when they say anything can be a story.
You need to develop your ability to relate and express a story. Once you get good at this,
you can create interest out of thin air. Anybody can get attention by telling a story which is in it's own nature entertaining. That
type of 'good' material WILL keep attention, but in the end it is the story that is
interesting and not you. That is bad.
I cannot express this strongly enough. AVOID INTERESTING STORIES. They can be a mirage, which will lead you away from seduction. Also keep in mind that 'interesting' material can be hijacked. You will be the center of
attention, talking about some great topic and then some other guy or CB just has to get in
their story or views on the same subject and then boom, you are no longer the center of
attention.
Instead develop your ability to make the mundane fascinating. Once you can do this, then your listener will associate good feelings with you and not your material. For example, I sometimes challenge guys to use their most fascinating material, whether it be palm reading, NLP, a story about seeing two girls fight or whatever and I will just recite my grocery shopping list. Then we will see who does better. That is what you need to do. Get really freaking good at making your groceries interesting. Do that and you will realize that it is not what you talk about, but how you talk about it.
Use dramatic pauses, hooks and expressions. Really get into your story. Also never just
spill your story out. Instead make your listeners want to hear more. Pause and look at
them. Wait for their interest to show. Play on their curiosity and refuse to 'entertain' them.
They must show interest on their faces and in their questions or else do not continue -
your story and performance is valuable. Try not to just give it away.
As far as sexual stories go, personally I talk about some of the things that have happened to me with other women. This is typically a money subject. The stories subtly relate ideas I want to get across (You may want to relate different ideas) Like I am good in bed, I am
a player who is up for a purely sexual relationship, women seek me out, I am high
maintenance (If I am considering this girl for mltr) etc... Of course these all appear to be
just things that are in the story and not the point of the story so it doesn't look like I'm
bragging or something.
Okay, so here is my recommendation to you:
Everyday in the evening, think of what you did that day and package it into a story.
Practice it a few times and then go out and use the "How are you opener." That goes like
this:
You: "How are you?"
Her: "I'm fine..." or whatever.
Her: "How are you?"
Or if she doesn't reciprocate you say playfully, "Don't you think it's rude to not ask how I am after I asked how you are?" Her: "Okay, how are you?" (Note: In general asking a question like this at the beginning of an interaction is
dangerous. You leave yourself open for her to say flatly, "No, I don't." The key is to
perform it very playfully. But there is still a chance of being burned here - just figure it
into your calculations.)
You: "I'm great. Today I went shopping...." or "I laid on the couch..." or whatever you did that day. Then the next night, re-write your stories based on what you did that day and so on. You never use the same story twice and you get real good at telling stories. Remember it's all on the delivery. Practice saying the most mundane, regular things in an interesting manner. Practice in front of a mirror and consider video recording yourself. Also, once you get good at 'performing' stories you will get good at coming up with
material spontaneously. This is because you will know what type of things to look for and
where to go. Many guys think that they cannot come up with something to talk about. But
the real problem that they don't realize is that they have too many things to talk about.
Getting good at performing will give you the ability to narrow these choices down and
make you 'quicker thinking'.
>How do you let on that you're high >maintenance and that they'd better >treat you like a king?
I'm pretty direct about this. Most of the time I'll just say, "Something I've discovered about myself is that, (pause for effect) I'm high maintenance. I like back rubs, receiving love notes, breakfast in bed, that sort of stuff. I like it when girls take care of me." Funny that this should come up. Just last night my teenage girlfriend showed up at my
door with a red rose in a vase and a love note. Awww, she is so thoughtful. (By the way,
those taking my Denver workshop may get a chance to meet her cause she's coming out
with me since we might go white water rafting later that week.)
Anyway, of course, I remember telling her early on all about me being high
maintenance. At the time she just shook her head, but now, during our
'relationship', she is providing the maintenance she knows I need.
Keep in mind, telling her I'm high maintenance is in no way a tactic to get her in bed. It
comes from the heart. It is a way of letting her know what I want. She probably won't
begin giving me a back rub right there during the sarge (although this does happen much
more than it has a right to) but it is a thought that I am planting, to guide the rest of
the interaction/relationship.You may want different types of behaviors from a girl. Some guys only want a girl to come over have sex and then leave. Some guys want a girl who is up for going out and picking up other girls for threesomes. The point is, whatever YOU want is what you should relate here.
See girls, like all people, need something to work towards. But at the same time, they
need a path to that goal. If you don't give them both then they are lost and will do
random and counter productive stuff. Almost from the moment I meet a girl, I am
telling her things that she can do to win my heart.
One more note. One of the reasons the "I'm high maintenance" thing works is because it is funny. And it is funny because it is startling. Guys just usually don't say that kind of thing - perform accordingly.
From: <juggler>
Subject: Juggler's Girlfriend Test
Date: Tuesday, 18 December 2001 8:05 AM
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast.tactics-techniques
Here is the girlfriend test per request. It is really very simple. When a girl checks your status. "Do you have a girlfriend?"
Say, "To be my girlfriend (or lover) is a prestigious and exclusive thing.
There's a test."
Curiosity being what it is, she will want to take the test. There are three
multiple-choice questions. Take out a pen and write the correct answers on her
palm but forbid her to look. Then ask her the questions while you hold her hand
closed. You should make up your own, but here are some example questions.
1. Which do you enjoy more? A shower or a warm bath?
2. What is the sexiest food? Whipped crème, chocolate syrup or strawberries?
3. What feels better? Kisses on your neck or nibbling on your ear?
The correct answers are bath, strawberries and kisses on the neck. Most times she will
answer the first two correctly. The last question is up for grabs. The crucial thing is that
the last question is some sort of intense kino or kissing that you can do right then.
If she gets it wrong: Whisper in her ear "I can't be with you if you really believe this
(nibble ear) feels better than this (kiss neck)."
If she gets it right: "I'm glad you like this (nibble or kiss). It is so much better than this
(kiss or nibble)."
Make sure you kiss and nibble before you let go of her hand. If she gets all the questions
wrong give her a playfully hard time about it. This test is used mostly after you have
some connection. If a girl checks your status it usually means she is interested. But you
may want to try it as an opening - who knows.
There are many variations including writing something clever on her hand instead of the
answers, etc. Someday I may post my SuperTest. But I'm sure posters to this group can
come up with some creative ones.
BLscorpZ: Ahh, where to start. After the whole get to know each other lunch time,
Juggler talked about the structure of his method, which I'll outline soon.
Then we went out in the field and we all made approaches here and there all
day. By saturday night, we were all totally ON and having a great time.
Sunday, there were fewer HBs and each of us made only a couple approaches
because the group may have been too large (there were 7 or 8 of us,
including Juggler himself). In total, I think I've interacted with about
20-30 women this weekend, most of them on saturday and saturday night. I
want to interact with about 200 more women in the next few weeks so I can
get the Juggler Method right. And take many things from it and integrate it
into my personal style. There are a couple things I disagree with in JM,
and I'll get to that later.
And now the meat. The things I want to say about JM and a few other things.
Bear with me, I'll try to make it as organized as possible, however this
could be a little messy, but not as messy as TD's posts...
*** CONVERSATION: HIGH & LOW POINTS According to Juggler, a conversation has high and low points. A low point
is like a pause or a lull in the conversation. A high point is where you
are talking freely and natural, as in a dialogue, and you two are in rapport
1. Which do you enjoy more? A shower or a warm bath?
2. What is the sexiest food? Whipped crème, chocolate syrup or strawberries?
3. What feels better? Kisses on your neck or nibbling on your ear?
The correct answers are bath, strawberries and kisses on the neck. Most times she will
answer the first two correctly. The last question is up for grabs. The crucial thing is that
the last question is some sort of intense kino or kissing that you can do right then.
If she gets it wrong: Whisper in her ear "I can't be with you if you really believe this
(nibble ear) feels better than this (kiss neck)."
If she gets it right: "I'm glad you like this (nibble or kiss). It is so much better than this
(kiss or nibble)."
Make sure you kiss and nibble before you let go of her hand. If she gets all the questions
wrong give her a playfully hard time about it. This test is used mostly after you have
some connection. If a girl checks your status it usually means she is interested. But you
may want to try it as an opening - who knows.
There are many variations including writing something clever on her hand instead of the
answers, etc. Someday I may post my SuperTest. But I'm sure posters to this group can
come up with some creative ones.
BLscorpZ: Ahh, where to start. After the whole get to know each other lunch time,
Juggler talked about the structure of his method, which I'll outline soon.
Then we went out in the field and we all made approaches here and there all
day. By saturday night, we were all totally ON and having a great time.
Sunday, there were fewer HBs and each of us made only a couple approaches
because the group may have been too large (there were 7 or 8 of us,
including Juggler himself). In total, I think I've interacted with about
20-30 women this weekend, most of them on saturday and saturday night. I
want to interact with about 200 more women in the next few weeks so I can
get the Juggler Method right. And take many things from it and integrate it
into my personal style. There are a couple things I disagree with in JM,
and I'll get to that later.
And now the meat. The things I want to say about JM and a few other things.
Bear with me, I'll try to make it as organized as possible, however this
could be a little messy, but not as messy as TD's posts...
*** CONVERSATION: HIGH & LOW POINTS According to Juggler, a conversation has high and low points. A low point
is like a pause or a lull in the conversation. A high point is where you
are talking freely and natural, as in a dialogue, and you two are in rapport
1. Which do you enjoy more? A shower or a warm bath?
2. What is the sexiest food? Whipped crème, chocolate syrup or strawberries?
3. What feels better? Kisses on your neck or nibbling on your ear?
The correct answers are bath, strawberries and kisses on the neck. Most times she will
answer the first two correctly. The last question is up for grabs. The crucial thing is that
the last question is some sort of intense kino or kissing that you can do right then.
If she gets it wrong: Whisper in her ear "I can't be with you if you really believe this
(nibble ear) feels better than this (kiss neck)."
If she gets it right: "I'm glad you like this (nibble or kiss). It is so much better than this
(kiss or nibble)."
Make sure you kiss and nibble before you let go of her hand. If she gets all the questions
wrong give her a playfully hard time about it. This test is used mostly after you have
some connection. If a girl checks your status it usually means she is interested. But you
may want to try it as an opening - who knows.
There are many variations including writing something clever on her hand instead of the
answers, etc. Someday I may post my SuperTest. But I'm sure posters to this group can
come up with some creative ones.
BLscorpZ: Ahh, where to start. After the whole get to know each other lunch time,
Juggler talked about the structure of his method, which I'll outline soon.
Then we went out in the field and we all made approaches here and there all
day. By saturday night, we were all totally ON and having a great time.
Sunday, there were fewer HBs and each of us made only a couple approaches
because the group may have been too large (there were 7 or 8 of us,
including Juggler himself). In total, I think I've interacted with about
20-30 women this weekend, most of them on saturday and saturday night. I
want to interact with about 200 more women in the next few weeks so I can
get the Juggler Method right. And take many things from it and integrate it
into my personal style. There are a couple things I disagree with in JM,
and I'll get to that later.
And now the meat. The things I want to say about JM and a few other things.
Bear with me, I'll try to make it as organized as possible, however this
could be a little messy, but not as messy as TD's posts...
*** CONVERSATION: HIGH & LOW POINTS According to Juggler, a conversation has high and low points. A low point
is like a pause or a lull in the conversation. A high point is where you
are talking freely and natural, as in a dialogue, and you two are in rapport
with each other. Get the picture? Now, I used to feel awkward or in a rush
to say something during a low point. But, having low points is normal in a
conversation, so no need to feel awkward or "force" the conversation.
Simply make more statements to see how the girl reacts to your statements,
and this should get the conversation going again. Which brings me to my
next point...
*** QUESTIONS VS. STATEMENTS Juggler has emphasized using statements rather questions throughout the
entire workshop. According to Juggler, if a girl is not responding to your
talking, don't force it with a question. It will not open her up. Stay
cool and comfortable, and find common ground using statements. This would
be at a low point, where you should not struggle to get the conversation
going by asking questions. Statements could be antecedotes, little snippets
from long stories, etc etc. It is always better to make statements of
value, something that they can RELATE to, preferrably NEW ideas. Questions
don't relay any value, statements do. Here's an example: it has been a
tough winter in DC this year. I'm in a mall, and see a girl browsing for
sandals. In this case, a good statement that she can relate to is, "hey,
those shoes are good summerwear, can't wait till summer because its been a
rough winter this year." And you can lead the conversation from there, you
get the idea. Which brings me to the next point...
*** OPENERS Anything is OK as an opener, so don't try and perfect the art of opening.
Rather, work on your body language when you open. I demonstrated for
Juggler by opening a girl that was walking by, and he said I have to work on
my body language. I tend to tilt my body to one side, putting more weight
on one foot than the other. He said to stand up straight and don't lean.
Also if you're in a bar and you can't hear her, don't lean your head in,
instead shift your entire body closer to her... its less threatening that
way. I can correct this in a matter of minutes. And also to SMILE more.
We also talked about physical breaks, which is hard to explain in text.
Read SexPDX's Review for more on that, since I won't even bother trying to
explain this. Anyway... Juggler also said that when you are making a statement as an opener, you
must make sure that the girl KNOWS you are talking to HER, not just to
yourself. That will get her to respond to you, rather than nodding and then
walking away thinking that you're just talking to yourself. Now, I don't
think it is necessary to make statements ALL the time, that is hard to do.
I think Juggler got confronted about that, and he says it is fine to ask
questions AS LONG as you can back it up with a statement or a short story.
I agree with this, and opinion openers are a good example. With opinion
openers, you open with a question... then you back it up with a
statement/story behind it. If you're not sure what opinion openers are,
just ask TD and Papa. I'm sure they'll give you GREAT examples, these two
guys are walking PU encyclopedias full of TFM
I can't think of any moreexamples of statement openers because they are more situational than canned.
Situational openers... well, look around and use your imagination. Juggler
also said that the opener and its follow-up don't have to be related.
Again, it can be an open-ended and genuine question backed up with a
statement. Then follow-up by opening a new conversation thread. Again,
don't struggle to keep the conversation going by asking questions. Asking
questions will only get her to feel a bit uncomfortable... in that
why-is-he-getting-to-know-me-and-I-don't-have-a-clue-who-he-is? kind of
thinking. Another thing about openers, don't wait for her response if there
is a pause. That will make her feel uncomfortable. Just continue with the
follow-up. Oh, and Juggler does restaurant sarging on waitresses and other
tables. On waitresses, he opens with "We're not big drinkers, but we'll
have this and that..." and on other tables, he asks them about what they're
eating and says "I don't think we have that where I'm from" and this gets
them to ask where he is from. I suppose he takes it from there. He has
demonstrated this for us a couple times.
Oh, before I move on to the next topic, here's an aside here - I asked him
about table approaches, and one thing I learned about opening tables is that
when someone on the table asks you a question, that is your CUE to sit down
and join them.
*** GENERATING INTEREST Juggler says to stop thinking in terms of IOIs, but in openness, rapport,
and genuine. I agree because when I sarge, I don't even count how many IOIs
women give me. I just feel the whole VIBE between us, and when I think it
is right, I go for the close. I think newbies, especially if they have
male-pattern-blindness, can practice by thinking in terms of IOIs, and when
they get GOOD at picking them up, they can stop counting the IOIs and just
go for it when they think they generated enough interest. Personally, I
never had a problem telling when a girl was interested in me, even in my AFC
days... I was perceptive enough. I just had a problem of doing *something*
about it.
*** TAKEAWAYS He doesn't believe in takeaways. According to him, they damage rapport. In your PUs, you should AIM for rapport rather than doing takeaways just
because you think it will get her to chase you. The only time they are fine
is when takeaways are natural and genuine. For example, if you need to go
to the bathroom. IME, I find that intentionally doing takeaways literally
KILLS any chance of me hooking up with a particular chick, espeically in the
bar scene where she can EASILY disappear into the crowd. So I would not
lean on takeaways to do the work in attracting her to me, UNLESS I am doing
the short-set method, in that case it is perfectly fine. More on that
later.
*** RAPPORT This is huge in JM, it is the most important thing. This is what JM aims
for. For instance, if a HB comes on to you, you MAY think that you are
moving forward. But this actually isn't so. You STILL need to get rapport
in order to seduce and close. You can get rapport by making statements and
bringing the conversation to a high point. Juggler advises against using
sarcasm, because it is negative and pessimistic, which I agree with.
Frankly, constant sarcasm turns me off. I can understand that in JM, you
rely on YOURSELF to be a natural, rather than using routines you memorized
off this seduction community. I used to use routines all the time, and yes
it got me results, but I still felt that the girl doesn't really like me for
who I AM. It was the routines doing the work for me. BUT... if you can use
your OWN routines and stories that are actually TRUE of you, then by all
means use them! Using your own material is EXPRESSING yourself to your
women... and this is what JM is all about. Self-expression. If you express
yourself to girls, they will want to express THEIRSELVES to YOU. This is
building intimacy between you and the girls. Now, THAT's rapport! In fact,
you should ALWAYS be expressing yourself, while you are talking AND
listening. Put a positive spin on everything, even if she only partially
agrees. I talked to Juggler about the levels of intimacy, and where does
each topic of conversation lie. It goes something like this (this is
extremely rough, and may not be the most accurrate, just to give you an
idea):
Level 1 (Superficial) -- pets, shoes, flowers, etc
Level 2 (Semi-Rapport) -- family, job, etc
Level 3 (Rapport) -- bf, relationships, sex
Level 4 (Deep-Rapport) -- SOI, close
I suppose this ties in very well with GWM because there is an assumption of
rapport (VRA) when you are at a high point in a conversation like this. In
Gunwitch's recent post about rapport he talks about talking to people as if
they are long-time friends, and not strangers. This ties in pretty well
with JM when it comes to making statements rather than bombarding her with
the typical get-to-know-you questions. *** SOI What do you do when you are at a high point in a conversation, when you have
rapport? Its time to SOI, and go for the close. If there is a high point
immediately after the opener, introduce yourself and tell her your name.
She will tell you hers. After that, on the high points, you may SOI.
Examples of SOIs:
"I like you."
"Hey, we should get together sometime."
"I want to see you again."
I know some guys here will knock these off as lame or something, but don't.
IME, they do work. There are a lot of girls who won't make a move on you
until you tell them this. Last time I used an SOI like this, it recently
was at school and I was in semi-rapport with a girl, and then I said "I like
you." Her face lit up and blushed a little, and she said "good, I like you
too." Then I immediately pulled her into my room and got the lay. Call it
fool's mate if ya want, but if it works, it works. No complaints. In JM,
you dont SOI until you are at a high point. Do not SOI during a low point,
it will come off as awkward and lame, and you set yourself up for a higher
chance of rejection. And he advises against using modifiers, such as "I
think..", "so, you know..", etc. Just go for it. Spit it out. Get it out.
And when you get a good reaction, proceed to close however you want to.
*** COCKY & FUNNY (or PLAYFUL, whatever ya wanna call it, I don't care) There's no C&F in JM. Because Juggler seems to think that rapport is
fragile and being cocky/funny will kill whatever rapport you have already
with the girl. I UNDERSTAND where he is coming from, although I won't do
away with C&F entirely. There are times where C&F has worked beautifully
and got me the girl, and there are other times where it BLEW my sarges to
bits and pieces. There also have been times where I got GREAT responses
from girls when I used C&F, but they end up going home with another guy who
was all rapport rapport with her. It is indeed tricky WHEN to use C&F. If
you and a girl ALREADY is in rapport, do NOT use C&F at that point. It will
only set you back, or even bomb the sarge so bad it won't be any prettier
than Baghdad at this moment. HOWEVER... I believe that C&F works best in
groupsets. Especially in the bar scene. It sets you apart. Plus, it gets
girls competing for you, and thats good social proof. Oh, and I just
realized... C&F liners ARE indeed STATEMENTS. A lot of TD's stuff are
statements, and TD himself says do not ask the girl any questions unless SHE
asks you first. In daytime sarges though, where you look for AIs and open
via physical breaks, C&F is often not necessary at all because it is easier
to get rapport in these cases. Well, maybe just a little bit, in terms of
ROLE PLAYING. The nighttime PU game is quite different though... which
leads me to the next topic.
*** JM IN BARS / CLUBS -- SUB-TOPIC: GROUPSETS Keep conversation simple, and emphasize body language movements because it
is hard to hear in these places since its loud and the girls have shorter
attention spans.
When sarging groupsets, Juggler advises going for the one who is LEAST
involved in her group. Get rapport with her, and get her to introduce you
to the others in her group. From there you can choose your target. It is
also better to engage one person STRONGLY than just MILDLY engaging an
entire group. You can even build your own group (which I have done before
myself). When Juggler talks to groups of 3 or more, most of his attention
is on one girl (his target), and optionally talks to the others before
isolating and closing his target. This, IMHO, is more flexible and
straightforward than how the traditional MM goes. When you are in rapport
with your target, don't forget to ask about her logistics. Who is she with?
How is she getting home? Where she is staying? That kind of thing. Also,
Juggler said that isolation is not necessarily in a private room. It can be
a short distance from her friends. I agree with that because her friends
probably can't hear your conversation anyway.
In bars, his mindset goes like this: "You don't need anything. Give what
you give, and put that in pauses" and says that gets him good reactions. If
the girls do not respond to you much at first, you can leave and come back
later. Rather than waiting for a pause or a lull in a conversation, you can
just pause the entire interaction when YOU want to, and return to them later
whenever you feel like it. This is similar to the short-set method that TD
recently posted about. Juggler also said that if you say something stupid
or make a mistake and they close up, you shouldn't view it as a bad thing
because her reaction does not measure your progress with her.
What about negs? I don't think Juggler believes in those. I find them to
rarely be necessary. Contrary to popular belief of MM, the 9s and 10s don't
get approached as much as the 8s do. So I find that when I approach a 9 or
10, they are actually welcoming and open. But maybe thats just to me, I
don't know and I'm not complaining
*** TALKING ABOUT RELATIONSHIP SITUATIONS (this topic should be between Rapport and SOI) Juggler and I discussed a lot about this as this is relatively new to me. I
did not do much of this before, except when getting a chick to be my MLTR
(read the MLTR theory post by Svengali, I HIGHLY recommend it if you're
looking for more than a ONS). I asked him how he goes about bringing up the
relationship topic of conversation. He said to tell about yours first. One
way to do this is, after you ask about her relationship situation (e.g. "so,
is there a bf/lover in your life now?") she'll be a bit shocked, and then
take over and tell her your relationship situation FIRST. And then ask her
"what about you?" Juggler advises on being honest, and show cracks in your
relationship situation, and she will show cracks in hers. Then you can work
from there. You don't really have to talk about relationships, but this is
a good lead-in to your SOI.
*** SUMMARY OF JUGGLER METHOD - Opening
- Wait for her to express herself (via making statements, getting rapport,
high point of convo)
- Introduce yourself (at the high point)
- What is she doing today? (if you are walking, she is going somewhere, say
"im going that way too")
- Show interest with statement (via talking about relationship situations
followed by an SOI)
- Make appropriate close (contact, instant date, kiss, or fuck)
JUGGLER METHOD, BY JUGGLER: (This seems analogous to Cat Theory from Mystery)
This may be counter-intuitive to you, but you want the conversation about YOU.
What interesting things you have to say, what stories you have to tell, what
you think about her, your method of revealing dark secrets from a girl's
subconscious, etc. Not about her. It's about you.
Talking about clothes, negging her, asking about her life etc. will work for a
short time. But then she will see the pattern of what you are doing, she will
see you working and she will shut you down. That way only works for chicks with
a low self-esteem.
The fuel that drives a conversation is curiosity. You must always prepare for
that to be present. Yes you can keep a conversation on life support by being
curious about her. And if done well, it can work. But really, hot girls get
talked up about themselves all the time. Many guys try the busting on her
approach. Really beautiful women have been hit on by guys since they were
thirteen. She can see you coming a mile away. You must turn the tables and get
her curious about YOU, get her coming on to YOU. Your instinct when you meet a girl should always be to hook her curiosity and have her asking you a question. That is the beginning of her chasing you. That is Juggler method.
That is actually not bad stuff. But you need to hook after her laugh. You did get a laugh here right? You: "a small African country. I going to have to fill many positions in my new
government. Let's see... (look at her appraisingly) What job would you be good
for... (she is curious as to what you think she should do in your
'administration'. Stretch it out.) I think you would be my... minister of
education."
Her: "Why education?" You: "Just look at your fingers (take her hand). Go into palm reading or jewelry powers routine. Story telling works just the same way - you want her to ask to hear them.
Figure out all your good material and find a way for her to work to discover
it.
You do not want to EV her. You want HER EVing YOU. The purpose of EV is to find
out a person's values and then appeal to those things. Let her be the one
trying to align herself with YOUR values. You are the fucking prize. Then she
will chase you, then she will close you.
